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I

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welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world

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with me George Galloway and me gatri we

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don't want to fight the bear but by

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Jingo if we do we've got the men we've

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got the ships we've got the money too

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that 19th Century Music Hall Dy was a

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favorite of the late and great Anthony

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Wedgewood Ben it could have been applied

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to the speech made by his son Hillary

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Ben bringing to a close the Fateful

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debate in Parliament this week which has

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taken Britain to war again to discuss it

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here on board the Sputnik we have

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Britain's foremost by a country mile in

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fact conservative political writer and

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analyst Peter oborn and I'm glad to say

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we can talk now Peter in the first

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instance about the debate it's often

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said cliche that such occasions show the

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House of Commons at its best actually I

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thought it showed the House of Commons

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at its worst this week what did you

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think I completely agree with you um the

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one person who made a serious

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contribution I felt or the most it was

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Jeremy Corbin but he was treated very

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badly by the house and not protected by

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the speaker and not protected by the

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speaker who I mean number of things

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would be said about the speaker of the

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commons who ought to represent

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impartiality what he did this week was

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to protect the war party in the house

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because at the end of Hillary Ben's

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meretricious speech uh the house burst

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into started clapping which I think and

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the the speaker stopped the SNP from

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clapping speeches but he tolerated

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clapping of Hillary Ben and that

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clapping of course sent out the the

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message that the the Tory party the Tory

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party and the new labor faction had come

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together to vote for air strikes on

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Syria the wars always start out with a

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tossing of uh straw hats and flag waving

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and cheers uh but it seldom lasts long

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uh the first world war we were told was

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going to be over by Christmas but for

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Christmases hence it was still uh

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producing blood and gore in Oceanic

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quantity uh this will not have the same

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oan IC quantity but a lot of blood will

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now be spilled and to what

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effect well that is what the uh prime

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minister in my view was unable to

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explain he just doesn't really have a

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war plan he doesn't he's really a case

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of of bombing and hoping for the best

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and that isn't really good enough

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because I think that Waging War is a uh

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very serious thing indeed it causes

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deaths it causes casual is it it's um

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caes innocent casualties and he really

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it is a serious matter and what I

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disliked about the debate last week was

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the way it was clearly being used for a

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domestic political purpose uh that is to

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say that it was carefully structured to

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split the labor party and the utterly

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disreputable remarks by the Prime

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Minister that the terrorist sympathizers

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were going to go into the no lobbies

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going to vote against the refused to

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withdraw which you refused to withdraw

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that was using a matter which of as

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serious as

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war in order to score domestic cheap

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domestic political points you're a

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history man uh you'll you'll know as I

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don't who said this but it seems to me

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an axiom uh in War uh that you work out

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what your enemy wants you to do and you

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do something different in this case uh

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there is no doubt at all indeed it's on

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social media now I saw a very powerful

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meme on social media emanating from

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these Isis types last night which was a

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recreation of the uh Crusader Army of

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the Franks and the English that they're

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coming back together again to launch

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another assault on the Muslim World Isis

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and Al-Qaeda and people like them they

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really wanted us to vote for war war

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yesterday because they want to draw Us

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in to a conflict because these people

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are ready to die they have no fear of

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dying but which will in the longer term

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bring the Muslims to their

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banner I think that is true um there's

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no question if you look at the Mad

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eatology uh of of Isis that they have

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this notion that they want to have the

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war to end all wars we are as far as

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Isis are concerned we are entering the

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end times now and I think most of the

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people who are fighting in that war in

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Syria by the way all believe that we are

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entering the end times we're going to

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see The Return of the medi and all kinds

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and the war to end all wars but I I uh

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and so you can say that on the other

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hand we let's let's say something else

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we do need to confront Isis sure I mean

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they are an question how not we have to

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confront them in a way that defeats them

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not in a way that strengthens them and

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uh adding seven or eight tornadoes

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uh to the mix isn't going to end them

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it's going to recruit for them I'm

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absolutely sure that as we sit here this

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weekend there are people in England who

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are plotting to harm us they're not

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being directed from raqa they will use

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weapons that didn't come from raqa it's

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the idea that comes from raqa and I

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wonder if this War's popularity in so

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far as it has any about 50/50 they say

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in the poems Will Survive the first

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terrorist atrocity an act of mass murder

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against innocent people seeking to

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punish guilty people just like

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77 yeah against that I would say that

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the thought of a domestic atrocity which

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as you say is perfectly

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conceivable is should not put us off

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doing Waging War or any any kind of

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foreign policy of course it shouldn't do

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that

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uh but nevertheless I I I do agree that

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I heard the um foreign secretary Philip

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Hammond immediately after the vote

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saying this is making Britain safer yeah

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I don't think that is in the short term

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that's certainly not true and in the

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long term we have to confront make sure

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that Dash is confronted and and

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destroyed I mean it is a absolutely

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poisonous group as by the way the

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Russians have understood much better

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than the West indeed let's come on to

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the I started with the Jingo uh quote

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precisely for that because that was

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about a confrontation in which Britain

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on the side of turkey was confronting

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Russia on its thrust towards

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Constantinople now Istanbul uh

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remarkable historical Echo uh that's

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exactly where we are now isn't it we are

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in Alliance with turkey and with the

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United States and France uh against

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Russia and this scarcely figured in the

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debate yesterday because whilst it's

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abundantly clear the Western powers are

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bent upon regime change in Damascus

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didn't seem to occur to them that Russia

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and Iran are as implacably

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opposed and therefore a confrontation in

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Syria over Syria is next to

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inevitable well the Syria civil war

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which is the most unsp unable tragedy

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I've been to Syria several times during

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this conflict and it makes you want to

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cry and cry and

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cry um this wonderful country beautiful

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country Center of

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civilization um being destroyed I walked

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through a suburb of Damascus two months

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ago it was E

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scoter I couldn't you couldn't get

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anything you couldn't even hear bird

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song nothing there was no life in it at

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all a place where people had lived and

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thrived only two years before now what

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what is the um and you look at what is

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causing the war there are so many

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there's the the the the Saudi versus

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Iranian

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conflict Isis and Al-Qaeda were

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certainly see it as a Shia Sunni

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conflict and I think too many people in

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the in Britain see it as a a western

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versus Russian conflict and I it's clear

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to me that it is uh that we all parties

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have to come together to eradicate Isis

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if we go on fighting our proxy wars in

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Syria then we're going to that is how

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Isis survives because people use them as

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as you rightly suggest it looks very

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much like the Turks have used them um it

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looks very much like the Saudis have

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used them in some way so people have be

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looks very much like we have used some

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will say we've used them in order to get

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down to do down Assad so there are all

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these agendas going on and that was not

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I didn't hear that that that point being

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made very clearly the confrontation with

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Russia not just because we're on RT but

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because I think the world might depend

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on it the confrontation with Russia that

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will now follow is uh the most important

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thing for me much as I love Syria I

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don't want to see uh war between Russia

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and the West um but but we saw with the

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shooting down of the Russian fighter uh

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by turkey just how quickly and how

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easily that could happen what are your

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worries on that score well exactly the

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same as yours I my my view is that

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Russia understood the nature of the the

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real nature of the problem in Syria much

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sooner than uh the Britain

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Cameron Obama although I think Obama's

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been more intelligent than some say the

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the the the threat Assad warned from the

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very beginning of the conflict that the

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threat was came from is militant Jihadi

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nihilist

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wahhabi Fighters and it was a real and

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we thought continued to see it long

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after it wasn't even conceivably true as

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a battle between freedom loving Hamstead

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socialists and a brutal dict dictatorial

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autocratic regime in in in Damascus that

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was a great Folly by Britain and America

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and the West because the Russians saw it

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in a much more much much more realistic

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way that here is a militant Jihad trying

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to take Damascus once it's taken

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damaskus the the message that sends out

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around the world and and Russia saw that

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and Lov by the way has been the

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extraordinar impressive figure lro is

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the most impressive state States man and

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Diplomat of my lifetime there's more of

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this after the

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break welcome back to Sputnik orbiting

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the world and in particular the Middle

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East but actually as we're now into

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something of a global confrontation

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genuinely looking at the world with

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Peter obor conservative small C probably

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also Big C though I don't inquire as to

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which card is in his wallet but a man of

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the world a man of History by far in a

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way the most acute Observer of

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international Affairs on the right in

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Britain today and Peter uh we ended the

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first half talking about lavro and the

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confrontation that may now uh lie before

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us uh over Syria quite frightening times

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I'm bound to say if you are a

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conservative with a big c that

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Hammond compared to lavro they said of

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Addington after he succeeded pit that

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pit is to Addington as London is to

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Paddington uh it seems to me that

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Hammond to lavro isn't much of a

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competition Simon Jenkins another

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00:13:16,959 --> 00:13:21,279
conservative columnist in the newspapers

274
00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:24,399
this week described Cameron AS

275
00:13:21,279 --> 00:13:26,839
terrorism's useful idiot I suppose what

276
00:13:24,399 --> 00:13:29,320
I'm getting at is that at this perilous

277
00:13:26,839 --> 00:13:31,160
time we're not actually being led by by

278
00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:34,760
men of great

279
00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:36,720
stature yes I I I accept that Hammond

280
00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:38,880
Philip Hammond the foreign secretary is

281
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:41,160
I forgotten his first name yeah he is

282
00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:43,720
not a significant figure he is

283
00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:47,440
essentially a manifestation of George

284
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:49,320
Osborne um and uh he I I he has not yet

285
00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:51,120
to say anything which has given me the

286
00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:54,079
impression he knows what he's talking

287
00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:57,759
about when it comes to uh foreign policy

288
00:13:54,079 --> 00:14:00,399
or the world um he's a useful machine

289
00:13:57,759 --> 00:14:02,519
politician the the state of the

290
00:14:00,399 --> 00:14:05,480
conservative party is something to which

291
00:14:02,519 --> 00:14:07,959
I'd like to turn you're a equally acute

292
00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:10,639
Observer of that we'll come to the labor

293
00:14:07,959 --> 00:14:14,000
party too in a in a minute the

294
00:14:10,639 --> 00:14:16,600
conservative party uh having from my

295
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:21,199
point of view failed uh in its Central

296
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:26,440
objective after six years uh now of

297
00:14:21,199 --> 00:14:30,480
austerity uh myin Scandal the uh Scandal

298
00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:33,000
that led to the suicide of a Young Man

299
00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:36,160
would in ordinary and and with Cameron

300
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:37,959
having pre-announced that he was going

301
00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:41,440
would in other

302
00:14:37,959 --> 00:14:44,720
circumstances uh be spiraling downwards

303
00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:47,680
be in a bit of trouble serious trouble

304
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:50,639
uh is this war a useful diversion for

305
00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:53,560
them from that I I don't think you can

306
00:14:50,639 --> 00:14:55,360
make that thesis sustainable because the

307
00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,880
Cameron is so dominant I mean owing to

308
00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,839
the weakness of labor at the moment the

309
00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,800
fact that labor is fighting a Civil War

310
00:14:58,839 --> 00:15:03,320
the conservative have just won a general

311
00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:06,399
election it's not like a desperate

312
00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:08,399
attempt by Kaiser vilhelm on in 1914 he

313
00:15:06,399 --> 00:15:10,839
launched His World War One really to

314
00:15:08,399 --> 00:15:13,199
maintain his domestic standing I don't

315
00:15:10,839 --> 00:15:16,480
think so I think Cameron genuinely uh

316
00:15:13,199 --> 00:15:17,839
believes in this um and he's convinced

317
00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:19,360
that he's doing the right thing but

318
00:15:17,839 --> 00:15:21,120
let's go back to the conservative party

319
00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:23,800
which I do agree with you is is in a

320
00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:26,079
very interesting state of Crisis and by

321
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:28,639
the way it's the same state of Crisis

322
00:15:26,079 --> 00:15:29,880
that labor is in uh and it's worth

323
00:15:28,639 --> 00:15:32,440
explaining

324
00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:34,240
both parties were captured by

325
00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:36,959
modernizers

326
00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:39,839
um the Blair rights captured the labor

327
00:15:36,959 --> 00:15:41,440
party they immediately reprogrammed it

328
00:15:39,839 --> 00:15:44,160
they they destroyed the power of the

329
00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:46,600
traditional institutions the NEC they

330
00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:49,120
turned the labor party into an

331
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:52,160
instrument of the of neoliberalism and

332
00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:55,600
neoconservatism this was a brilliant

333
00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:57,839
operation by by Blair and madelon and

334
00:15:55,600 --> 00:16:01,160
what you Happ happened with kin is it's

335
00:15:57,839 --> 00:16:03,440
been recaptured by the labor base very

336
00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:05,720
now let's now turn to the conservative

337
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:06,839
party where something very similar is

338
00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:09,880
going

339
00:16:06,839 --> 00:16:13,519
on the conservative Cy was captured by

340
00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:15,519
the by the modernizing faction who um

341
00:16:13,519 --> 00:16:16,759
model themselves on Blair they they the

342
00:16:15,519 --> 00:16:21,040
hero worship

343
00:16:16,759 --> 00:16:23,240
Blair and uh they have uh and they did

344
00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:26,319
exactly the same thing organizationally

345
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:28,000
structurally methodolog methodologically

346
00:16:26,319 --> 00:16:30,120
that is to say they deprogram the

347
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,800
conservative party traditionally the

348
00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:34,040
conservative party has had a major

349
00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:36,120
figure really substantial a Chris

350
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:39,160
patteron a thoric Croft a Willie White

351
00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:41,680
Law rad Butler a really significant

352
00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:43,199
major figure at the top they got rid of

353
00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:47,079
the political figures on the top and

354
00:16:43,199 --> 00:16:48,519
they put in the money man the crony BL

355
00:16:47,079 --> 00:16:51,720
the Cameron's ten Cameron's tennis

356
00:16:48,519 --> 00:16:53,560
partner an non entity Feldman in charge

357
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:56,480
of the conservative party accountable

358
00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:58,079
only to Cameron and Osborne nobody else

359
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,480
and that he's incapable he's got no

360
00:16:58,079 --> 00:17:01,720
political skills not allowed on the

361
00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:03,480
television even imagine that the the

362
00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,280
representative of the conservative base

363
00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:07,520
is not even permitted to go on news

364
00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:09,679
night or the today program is just a

365
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:11,640
manifestation of the leadership of the

366
00:17:09,679 --> 00:17:14,600
capture of the Party by the hedge fund

367
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:16,839
managers actually and he's now and he

368
00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:19,679
he's very interesting this this latest

369
00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:20,559
filthy disgusting tragic set of events

370
00:17:19,679 --> 00:17:22,679
happening in the heart of the

371
00:17:20,559 --> 00:17:24,600
conservative party it's not because he's

372
00:17:22,679 --> 00:17:26,839
a l he knew it was going on but because

373
00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:30,440
he didn't have the skills or the ability

374
00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:31,280
or the wisdom to to act and react to it

375
00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:34,360
and

376
00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:36,240
who therefore be the beneficiary of this

377
00:17:34,360 --> 00:17:38,120
uh who's the Corbin then in the

378
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:40,640
conservative party very interesting who

379
00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:44,120
will uh who will lead a campaign to make

380
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:46,760
it conservative again what I I mean it's

381
00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:48,799
one point is that Corin captured came

382
00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:50,640
from within in the conservative the

383
00:17:48,799 --> 00:17:53,640
Revolt came from outside

384
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:56,280
ukip farage grabbed millions of

385
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:59,000
conservative voters but he did it from

386
00:17:56,280 --> 00:18:03,080
outside now nevertheless I think we must

387
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:05,919
be on the edge of a of a a popular

388
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:08,080
Revolt from within the constituency

389
00:18:05,919 --> 00:18:10,120
associations and the activists because

390
00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:12,000
let's see how Felman has done the the

391
00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:14,480
so-called chair well he is the chairman

392
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:17,159
of the party he he's turned it into a

393
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:19,320
proe campaigning machine he's going out

394
00:18:17,159 --> 00:18:22,000
there ringing up his big

395
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:26,120
donors and asking them to contribute to

396
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:28,280
the Romain Camp he and mandelson and and

397
00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:30,320
and the new labor mob and will straw the

398
00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:32,320
son of the and said they're all together

399
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:35,760
in this Center we're all in this

400
00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:40,159
together let's turn to uh Jeremy Corbin

401
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:44,080
I saw him in that uh Victorian painting

402
00:18:40,159 --> 00:18:47,799
of the Stag at Bay uh in the house uh

403
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:50,840
this week uh he was Noble he was trying

404
00:18:47,799 --> 00:18:53,520
to make a sincere and I believe powerful

405
00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:58,360
fundamentally powerful set of points he

406
00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:59,520
was torn down by the yapping uh hounds

407
00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:02,320
um

408
00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:04,200
I'm not sure that he survives this if

409
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:07,480
this is his last moment what a glorious

410
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:09,400
way to go what what Corbin did was

411
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,799
perform the traditional role of the

412
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:14,240
leader of an opposition utterly

413
00:19:11,799 --> 00:19:17,480
honorable hold government policy to

414
00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:19,240
account and the the reaction to that by

415
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:21,960
the rest of the house by the media and

416
00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:24,159
above all by his colleagues was to to

417
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:27,480
ignore him to humiliate him but what a

418
00:19:24,159 --> 00:19:28,799
magnificent way to go if if he does go I

419
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:31,200
and I think there's still a fight on his

420
00:19:28,799 --> 00:19:33,120
hands because he does have the support

421
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:35,799
as far as I can tell of labor party

422
00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:38,320
members I want to turn to the question

423
00:19:35,799 --> 00:19:41,280
of Europe if I may on which you uh very

424
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:43,280
frequently uh write uh someone like me

425
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:46,880
for example an internationalist the very

426
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:51,679
opposite of a xenophobe and and a a

427
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:54,720
racist bigot which a lot of the ukip uh

428
00:19:51,679 --> 00:19:57,200
individuals seem to me to be uh will

429
00:19:54,720 --> 00:20:01,039
find myself almost certainly uh in the

430
00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:04,080
same Lobby uh uh I believe in Europe I

431
00:20:01,039 --> 00:20:07,799
believe in the unity of its people but I

432
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:09,799
can't support this EU uh I cannot

433
00:20:07,799 --> 00:20:12,919
campaign for it I cannot try to persuade

434
00:20:09,799 --> 00:20:14,720
people to vote for it and given that

435
00:20:12,919 --> 00:20:17,000
it's also under attack from a different

436
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:20,039
political perspective I'm not sure that

437
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:24,080
the center ground the political class uh

438
00:20:20,039 --> 00:20:25,880
can actually hold and it may be that

439
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:29,320
they are headed for defeat on the

440
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:31,559
European Union I am well let's look at

441
00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:33,760
the I I I'd like to think that I I

442
00:20:31,559 --> 00:20:35,280
probably will be part of the no Camp I'm

443
00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:38,360
respectfully waiting for the prime

444
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:41,799
minister to return from his negotiations

445
00:20:38,360 --> 00:20:43,640
and if he does uh secure British

446
00:20:41,799 --> 00:20:45,840
Britain's democracy I think this is what

447
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:48,400
to me what is at stake is British

448
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:51,200
democracy the the ant the European Union

449
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:53,440
the central criticism for me is that the

450
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:57,720
European Union is an

451
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:59,919
anti-democratic body and we want to I

452
00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:01,360
love I think you do to be something

453
00:20:59,919 --> 00:21:05,120
maybe well United on British

454
00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:07,600
parliamentary democracy is a great thing

455
00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:10,440
and uh we and our sovereignty is

456
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:13,440
something which you can't you Europe

457
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:15,120
isn't is is is run by bureaucrats who

458
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:18,320
themselves are controlled very often by

459
00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:20,720
large corporations and un and they're

460
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:23,320
invisible nobody knows who they are they

461
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:26,200
get paid huge sums and that is the

462
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:27,799
campaigning perhaps we will be on a I'd

463
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:31,080
be delighted to be on a platform with

464
00:21:27,799 --> 00:21:32,679
you the problem is some of the others uh

465
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,400
as Wellington said reviewing his own

466
00:21:32,679 --> 00:21:36,320
troops before watero I don't know what

467
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:39,799
they do to the enemy but they don't have

468
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:42,720
frighten me uh but you and I and uh

469
00:21:39,799 --> 00:21:45,880
maybe Hitchens could uh could form a a

470
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:49,080
traveling show uh that might draw in the

471
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:50,400
the crowns I just don't see you see when

472
00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:53,159
an

473
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:55,840
institution when there's no love for an

474
00:21:53,159 --> 00:21:58,720
institution and nobody loves the

475
00:21:55,840 --> 00:22:02,000
European Union nobody even the people

476
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:03,840
does have it has the uh the MEPS the

477
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,679
bureaucrats people picking up the money

478
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:07,919
the big companies which which create the

479
00:22:05,679 --> 00:22:10,919
legislation they they station their

480
00:22:07,919 --> 00:22:13,760
lobbyists they it in Brussels and they

481
00:22:10,919 --> 00:22:16,679
they love the lookup but when I fought

482
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:20,480
the first uh referendum in

483
00:22:16,679 --> 00:22:22,000
1975 I was against uh joining it uh

484
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:25,640
there were quite a lot of people who

485
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:28,919
loved it the idea of Europe of the

486
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:31,039
European Union no more war and and and

487
00:22:28,919 --> 00:22:34,360
and you could see the intellectual basis

488
00:22:31,039 --> 00:22:36,799
of that uh set of beliefs but as it's

489
00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:40,120
turned out into this bloated

490
00:22:36,799 --> 00:22:42,840
anti-democratic untransparent invisible

491
00:22:40,120 --> 00:22:45,799
really quite malignant also an

492
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:48,640
instrument of Destruction in Greece if

493
00:22:45,799 --> 00:22:51,760
you're a Greek or Portugal an instrument

494
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:54,240
of Social and Industrial destruction a

495
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:56,559
wealth destruction a jobs destroying

496
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:58,520
machine that is what Europe has become

497
00:22:56,559 --> 00:23:01,559
yeah I'm not sure there are going to be

498
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:03,039
able to hold the line I'm not sure the

499
00:23:01,559 --> 00:23:06,640
of course it will be the big fear

500
00:23:03,039 --> 00:23:08,600
campaign use uh and that will have an

501
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:13,279
effect but I'm not sure that it's going

502
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:15,440
to be uh decisive finally then you're uh

503
00:23:13,279 --> 00:23:17,640
as well as being a a renaissance man

504
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:22,919
intellectual and all that you're you're

505
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:26,039
a practicing uh journalist um I must say

506
00:23:22,919 --> 00:23:26,760
that the broadcast media in particular

507
00:23:26,039 --> 00:23:31,240
the

508
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:34,559
BBC uh starting from the Iraq War 2003

509
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:37,520
and the Muro owned Sky News Empire which

510
00:23:34,559 --> 00:23:41,039
drives so much newspaper coverage after

511
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:43,000
the broadcasters have spoken uh share a

512
00:23:41,039 --> 00:23:45,120
lot of responsibility for the

513
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:48,679
international situation that we are now

514
00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:53,360
in I will end up by defending the BBC

515
00:23:48,679 --> 00:23:54,720
because it is at its best uh an a

516
00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:56,400
something which we all have in common

517
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:58,440
it's part of our common culture it

518
00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,880
should not be owned or possessed

519
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:03,720
possessed by the political class and

520
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:05,400
recent figures at the Helm of the BBC

521
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,520
have of course been much too close

522
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:10,200
they've forgotten their great reian

523
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:12,279
inheritance become instruments of

524
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:14,200
political interest which they mustn't be

525
00:24:12,279 --> 00:24:17,120
what would we be be without the

526
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:20,080
BBC it would go over to and that's why

527
00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:22,520
Murdoch who you critical of wants to

528
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:25,600
destroy the BBC so that it can all we

529
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:28,000
can have us Style TV do we want that no

530
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:30,279
but if we end up with a BBC that is IND

531
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:32,600
distinguish able from what M would like

532
00:24:30,279 --> 00:24:33,960
the TV to be I mean some of the people

533
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,360
we don't have time to go into it who

534
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:39,240
have been elevated to the top of the BBC

535
00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:42,679
are in fact political aaric indeed of

536
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:44,760
this uh merged political class that you

537
00:24:42,679 --> 00:24:47,159
spoke about uh earlier it's been

538
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:49,159
absolutely fascinating I must say Peter

539
00:24:47,159 --> 00:24:53,120
auor thanks for joining us thank you

540
00:24:49,159 --> 00:24:53,120
very muchnik i' lovely to talk to

541
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:58,399
you and now it's your turn to tell us

542
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,640
what you think through the portals of

543
00:24:58,399 --> 00:25:03,279
social media what's rling well the Daily

544
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:06,960
Mail headline the morning after the vote

545
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was after the bombs what's next Ricardo

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Picasso says much humility apology and

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an admission that we are wrong or just

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more war because it's easier and Bobby

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Six killer says regime Chang they've

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already said so turn it into another

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Libya yes another Libya another Iraq

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they ended well didn't they they did and

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that's all that we've got for today

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which alas means that's the end of a

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terrific show I hope you'll agree you

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can stay in touch with us on Twitter at

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00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:39,120
rtor Sputnik or on Facebook Sputnik on

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Russia today it's goodbye from me gatri

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and from me George Gallow it's been

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marvelous